n this interview with Sunday Aborisade,  a former governor of Kwara State and the Senator representing Kwara-Central Senatorial District, Bukola Saraki, speaks on the crisis rocking the People’s Democratic Party

 In a political clime like Nigeria where political parties lack ideology, what are the qualities that you see in the All Progressives Congress that make it better than the Peoples Democratic Party you have rejected? 

First of all, we must ask ourselves and look at the background, especially of issues we are complaining more about. Over the last few months, we have been asking the party (APC) about the inclusiveness that does not exist in the Peoples Democratic Party. There is the need for a level playing ground and due process; the need to have internal democracy. There cannot be impunity and high handedness and they must abide by the constitution and follow due process. There are many examples of certain things that have happened, starting with the dissolution of the Adamawa State executive of the PDP; suspension of party members that should not have been more than 30 days, among others. In Kwara State, impunity manifested during our local government election. We had started the process of election, we had conducted primaries, and the national body sent representative to oversee the primaries. They also presided over the appeals of the aggrieved aspirants and we all agreed at the end of the day that the cleared candidates after the exercise were those that emerged at the end of the day. But to our horror and shock, 24 hours before the election, a list emerged from the headquarters and was sent to the state Independent National Electoral Commission, containing names of 16 chairmanship candidates and 196 councillors. We asked ourselves, “Where did these names emerge from?” It means that they just sat down and wrote names. We thought that close to 16 years of democracy in Nigeria, this was not the level of democracy we expect of our party. This development really shocked us in the state. This means that in 2014, the choice and the wish of the people may not be guaranteed in determining who represents them at the polls.

What efforts did you make to correct some of these things?

Over three and half months was ample time to resolve these issues but instead of doing the right thing,  they were engaging in actions that further made it worse and compounded.  Generally, as people in the state, you will now believe that we are not wanted in the party. To me, that is the message that you can get out of the whole thing and it is the time when you are not wanted that you leave. If you are not wanted somewhere as a politician, you leave. Those are the core essence of democracy and party politics.

Are you saying you find internal democracy entrenched in the APC better than in the PDP which you are moving out from?

Well, we have to experience it.

How will you react to the allegation that some of you in the defunct New PDP and G-7 Governors were prosecuting your agenda for selfish reasons?

What is the selfish interest? The selfish interest is to stay in the PDP. It is the government party. It is the comfort zone. It is from where you get patronage because it is in government.  What then is selfish interest in what we were doing? It is more of a sacrifice. It is something you have built and lifted to a certain height; it is not easy to just leave just like that. That was why it took several months for us to take the decision. This is more of a sacrifice. Is it easy to take on government?  If our struggle was to achieve a selfish end, we would have stayed in the PDP. We know all what we will benefit from government by doing so.  We are talking about our people. It is not about an individual.  Far from it, it is the opposite.

What if your followers fail to follow you to the APC, don’t you think you might fail in the APC?

How can our followers fail to follow us to the APC?  It is not a decision that I unilaterally took. You have to understand how we do politics in Kwara State. It is not a decision that I or few of us sat down and took in Abuja. The choice we made is the decision of the people. We went back home and we said this is our predicament, this is where we are. The last straw that actually broke the camel’s back was the last council election that was conducted in Kwara State.  Did I contest in the election? If it was my own election that brought about the protest, and I now forced it on the people then you can say, he is one that is driving the process but when grass-root politicians can see something, it is different. They had nominated Musa Ali as councillor for Akanbi ward four, and they heard later that Abuja had supplemented Ali’s name for Deji Oni. It is not a question of whether the followers would follow us, it is the followers who are saying, “Are we still welcomed in this party?” We had taken decisions at the primaries and had chosen our own candidates and the party in Abuja was doing something else, is this the party we should belong to? At that stage, there was nothing we could do. So, we are being driven by the choices of the people.It is not us taking a position. That question does not arise in Kwara State, it could be the case in other states but not so in Kwara.

Would your late father, Senator Olusola Saraki, while alive, have considered joining the APC notwithstanding the alleged injustice in the PDP, if he were in your shoes?

Yes. You will remember in his time, at one time, we were in the All Nigeria Peoples Party before we went to the PDP.  We have been through this before and that is why people will tell you in Kwara that the current development is not new to us. We were in the ANPP and we went to the PDP when there was injustice. PDP, at that time, was a minority party but when we took over, it became the majority party. You will find in Kwara State, again this time around, that the APC would become the majority party.

Since you defected to the APC, what has been the views of your late father’s political associates like Chief Olusegun Obasanjo,  and Alhaji Arisekola-Alao, among others?

This is a Kwara State issue; you are talking of an event of how many weeks ago? We have not gone outside Kwara to seek advice and opinions of people. I don’t know their comments.  This is not the decision of an individual. We should all try to know that why we have been able to sustain a machinery like this is because our political structure is built around our people.  It is not built around any individual. Kwara politics is about people. It is the people at the grass-roots level that determine and dictate to us the direction that we are going. We are serving the people. If they are now saying, ‘Oga, we no longer wanted in this party, this is where we are no going,’ I will agree with them. We will not go to other states and be seeking opinions; it is our own people who have the final say.

What is the problem with the Nigeria Governors’ Forum which you once headed as the chairman?

Unfortunately, I think that there has been too much external interference in the affairs of the forum and I think people sometimes misread what the forum is about and sometimes perceive it to be a forum that must be dismantled or weakened.  The forum has positive values. Development is only seen through the mirror of politics.  It is not all about politics.  The forum was set up as a peer review mechanism; as a way of improving governance at the state level.  That is to say, if Cross River State has a very good educational policy, Zamfara,  Kwara and Kaduna can come in and share in that value. And by so doing, the people are better served. That is what the forum is all about. But, unfortunately, some people do not see it that way. Rather, they believe that it is about politics and power. If you look at the positive contributions that the forum has made in the political development of Nigeria, these people will not express such fears, which are misrepresentations of what the forum stands for. Instead of interference, if the governors are alone, they will resolve their issue because it is a voluntary organisation. People were not forced to join. Leave them alone, they will resolve their problems.

How will you describe the roles played by Governor Jonah Jang in the whole saga?

I don’t really see any role he played. The damage had been done before he was brought into the fore. I think and hope that they will still find an avenue to resolve the problem because I believe that the institution should survive beyond this time. As we all know, an election was held and it was clear that the governor from Rivers State won. Whatever the politics that happened before the election;  whether some people promised to vote but did not vote; some signed and swore that they will vote for a particular candidate but at the end of the day, they did not vote; that is a different issue. Those issues do not matter. What matters is, at the end of the day, what was the result of the vote? The Rivers State Governor won. What they needed to have done was to reach a compromise. They will now go back to the table and say in the interest of everybody, this is what we will do. Even now, I still believe that there is room for compromise.  Yes, Governor Amaechi won but there is no doubt that there are issues and crisis, and I think they can still give and take. Either you allow the man to finish his term or ask him to spend half of the term and go. There must be compromises here and there in the interest of the institution. I am sure that there will be progress, if they look at that direction and are prepared to do that because it is a legacy that they will all want to leave behind. They must find a solution. Amaechi won the election about a year ago now. My take is that if the crisis is not resolved, the damage it will do will be greater. There is an argument that we didn’t conduct election in the past. Yes but the constitution provides for it. It is agreed that a time will come when we will do election and if the election is held, it must be respected. If there are still issues after that, then there should be give and take in finding solution to that.

What are your views on the PDP Governors Forum?

As a party, there is nothing wrong about that. The only reason why we used to combine both the chairmanship of the NGF and that of the PDPGF was for administrative convenience because it is easier for you to administer that way and there is no problem with that. Also, there is nothing wrong with having a PDPGF chairman, once the reason for it is for good intentions. There is nothing wrong with that.

What can you foresee about the 2015 general elections?

Generally, the major issue is that as a country, we must ensure that we have a transparent, free and fair election. That is the greatest challenge before all of us, both the politicians and, especially, INEC.  That is the main issue. INEC must live up to the expectations of Nigerians and the international community. The danger is not being able to have a transparent election that is free,  acceptable and representative of the real wishes of the people. That is the major challenge. The other issues that are happening at the party levels are secondary.  The parties will resolve their problems and if they fail to resolve their problems,  the people will leave them and join other parties of their choice. What is the greatest danger to our democracy is being unable to have a credible election much better than the one we recently had in Anambra State, which INEC itself admitted was not perfect. Ekiti and Osun states (governorship) elections are coming up, I hope INEC will not have cause to give excuses again. INEC should build back the confidence of the people in elections. There is the issue of voter card largely unresolved. There must be proper logistics planning before the next general elections. Once we can have a free and transparent election, I believe that is the number one issue before all of us.

Why do you think governors fail to conduct local government elections in their states?

I cannot speak for other governors but throughout my eight-year-tenure as governor of Kwara State,  we conducted local government elections as and at when due. My successor too has been conducting elections as at when due. In other states, I don’t really know the challenges they are facing.

Do you have any advice for them, based on your experience in Kwara.

The wish of the people is the most important and we must try and ensure that we build institutions and ensure that we follow and respect the provisions of the constitution.

You recently advocated for the declaration of a state of emergency in the labour market. Why?

What we are saying, basically, is that whenever we go about, interacting with the people, one of the major challenges that keep confronting us is the issue of unemployment. In as much as I say that Kwara has one of the lowest records of unemployed youths in the country, if we still have one or two cases, it is still a problem that any responsible government must take seriously, especially when the youth account for about 70 per cent of the population of the country. We should address it aggressively with passion, as something that is urgent. We must devise our own approach to tackle it. What we did by having that summit is that we considered the needs of the people. We are stressing the need to promote entrepreneurship, find out whether the youths have the skills. If they don’t, can we partner with some of the institutions that can provide them with some of the skills? If they have the skills already but lack capital, we would walk into some of the banks and co-operatives to ask ‘what can my constituency office do to help?’ We will now engage the government to see what we can do. The state was able to make some commitments by pledging to provide 500 new jobs in the area of those that will be employed under KWABECH and also about 4000 in vocational training. In all, about 6,000 people could be employed based on the approach we have designed in the next 60 days. That is what I meant by emergency declaration in the employment sector, which will help significantly to reduce unemployment among our youths.

What is your next move after 2015?

You can see how active we are in 2013; I think 2015 is still a long way to go. We have many challenges — we are building a new party in Kwara, we are addressing the issue of working towards ensuring that there are free, fair, transparent and credible elections. We are working on our assignment at the Senate in the area of environment, especially issues of flooding, degradation and many others. All these are keeping us busy and challenged that I think that to start talking of something two years ahead is really not what is paramount to us now.

There appears to be sharp division among your major party members in Kwara State. Again, the problem between you and Abdulraheem Oba, who is aggrieved that you did not support his re-nomination as Chairman of the Federal Character Commission has again deepened the crisis with some of them threatening now that they would not allow you to have your way in the Kwara State politics anymore, how would you react to this?

I don’t want to comment on some of the questions but I learnt something from my old man in politics. He would say ‘let us meet at the poll.’ Politics is about people and, like I said, we have a big family. Sometimes, people will stay with you, sometimes, due to one or two reasons, some people will go but posterity will judge us. It is a pity that you are here in Abuja, if you were a correspondent in Kwara State, you will not ask me that question because you will know the reality on ground.

There are insinuations that your relationship with your state governor is sour and that you are likely not to support him for another term in office. How true is this?

Like I said earlier, I will not want to comment on some of these issues. A time will come when we will comment on this kind of issue. I can tell you that I have a very good relationship with my state governor because I believe that if we are successful in Kwara State in showing that somebody can take over after you, then you can have a cordial relationship for the development of the state. As I said, it is only in Kwara State that Senator Shaaba Lafiagi who is a former governor; myself, a former governor and  Fatai Ahmed is a governor, attend functions together. There is no acrimony; nothing and I see no reason why it should be. And again, I think we are showing a model and I pray it works for me or for him, and I think this will in a long way to helping development.

Would you attribute some of the noticeable absence of good relationship between you and some of your loyalists to the absence of your father?

I have said it that there is no problem in the politics of the state

But you acknowledged that there were some divisions earlier.

I said one or two. Look at those that supported us, we still have 99 per cent of the support in the state; we are still one big family. We just conducted local government election. The state Assembly members are intact; the council chairmen and 196 councillors are intact. The traditional rulers’ support is there. There was a transition, even in the life time of my father, there was a process and it prepared us for this day to continue what he used to do, it is difficult for me to talk. I would have preferred this kind of meeting to be back in Ilorin, when you spend an evening with us there and those of you that know what it used to be at his time and begin to see that the institution is being sustained, then you know what I am talking about here. So what you are seeing from some of the elders are for selfish reasons and they are local issues. I don’t what to respond to them. Those that will respond to them will do that. But I can tell you that majority of the people are still with us, those that followed Baba are still together. and that is why we keep telling people that anyway, anytime, we will deliver in Kwara State.

Would you say your father’s shoe is too big for you?

Yes, his shoe is too big to step into because he has a large heart. You cannot train somebody to get a large heart, it is either you have it or you don’t have it. Truly, he had the ability to give; he could give you anything and I think that is rare. And to give is not just to give money but giving your time to somebody who you do not even know. I wish one can have even half of what he had but people like that are once in a life time.